That article Early Jesus Freak Movement Hollywood Free Paper country As Sixties(TM) as Rowan & Martins Laugh-In and then some. And I *know* that I sounded every bit as naive as those kids in the article. 3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists - Redeeming God He is also an ordained Baptist minister. But I can say, knowing what I now know about God, that God would never ever ever have set the evil I suffered in place intentionally. Pray for him. I gotta second numos motion. Thanks for the clarification. What Julie Anne is saying is also elaborated by Christa Brown in chapter 46 of her book This Little Light as well as here: http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/ravagedfaith.html. Mohler is either clueless or his inflated view of self distorts what he has done to the Southern Baptist Convention. He followed what was Augustinianism, which was the soteriological understanding of the church historically - all the way back to the apostles themselves. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: God is bigger than us and is beyond our understanding except for some basics. Admittedly, Calvin also had a lot of temporal power, which he did not always use wisely. He said he found comfort from it. I think this post was a great step toward making those folks feel more welcome. @ Daisy: http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/reformed-theology/arminianism/calvinism-vs-arminianism-comparison-chart/, http://www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/topic/happiness/helping-others, http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2013/09/dont-mess-with-texas-baptists_2.html, http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/ravagedfaith.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . Comments moving to the To Calvinist posts from this point. This is such a profound conversation and so close to my heart! (But I always wondered why, if it was not His desire that any man should perish, that He also would create someone specifically for hell??). Can God repair things? Again, if it were a matter of someone, as I put it earlier, beating someone over the head with their beliefs, that would be different. I am currently reading Roger Olson's book, Against Calvinism. I dont have experience of dealing with, or helping someone else deal with, child sex abuse; and of course I dont have experience of being someone else. I DO think that Calvinism is misconstrued a lot by people in this position, but either way its not a good time or place to try and correct them. I am not trying to argue doctrine, because that is not my or anyone elses business here. Dee blast from the past! Im not trying to imply that you have never done the later. Apollos! discussions. Just an observation. And what is an ocean but a multitude of single drops? It stopped making sense when God began to show me in many profound ways that He loves me. Im sure we will have our playful little jabs, and he doesnt mind dishing it. I am a new Methodist pastor, a woman who has a great deal of respect for people who love the Lord and are serious about their study. (Well, maybe those who are committed to doing evil to others arent asking those questions, but). This might be where Romans 8:28 comes in, or the story of Joseph in the Old Testament. So perhaps it carries untruth? Grew up in Arlington.Christian (immigrant) family. I watched past the first 15 minutes to watch the whole thing, and the video host quotes Calvinists at many times (showing their quotes typed up on the screen), and some of the Cals he quoted do believe God is the author of evil. However, Jesus entered our dimension and exists now outside of our dimension. However, they are limited, just as we are. It doesnt conform to our sense of fairness and love. @ Bridget: I dont think so, but Im pretty sure Spock was a Calvinist. I may be wrong, but I get the feeling that you dont want Calvinists to be completely honest about what they believe in the current discussion, because someone may be hurt. if man does NOT get to decided the level of his depravity (by knowing good from evil and choosing it) then God must decide FOR himwhich means, again, that not being as bad as you could be is irrelevant. Please feel free to cut and paste comments to which you are responding over at that other post. You do not have to stay in a church that does not respect your point of view. As for my content, I think the Nicene Creed covers a lot of it. He is still in a leadership position within the church. Pg 81 Its more that the molecule is not outside of his authority. To me, there is a huge difference. It is entirely congregationally driven, so the church votes on pastors, and votes on board members (elders), not the other way around. I DO struggle that when a woman is raped, that God chose not to prevent it. R.C. These are things that we can work on together, no matter our view on election. LOLGod works in mysterious and wonderful ways! No. My only reason for defending Calvinism here is because I want the focus not to be on Soteriology, but on fighting abuse. John Knox should be in the Reformation category (he lived in the early 1500s, not 1700). But the rest of the bad stuff? If you think I should be silent whenever I see Calvinism misrepresnted, then that isnt right. He is still in a leadership position within the church. considering you are being so charitable and I called Calvinism a horrible doctrine. Pushing Calvin on a hurting individual is like pushing steak on an infant. (LogOut/ But, knowing that this type of discussion triggers upsetting thoughts, why did you encourage it? Besides the fact that I believe that the Bible says that God is all-knowing and all-powerful (and I hope to get into details about that later), the idea that suffering is *meaningless* is worse to me than the idea of God, as you put it well, [orchestrating] even the specific tragedies of life. If its within Gods orchestration, I can be assured that there is a reason for them. I think the scripture uses the language of both perspectives, so it is not a view without merit. That's pretty darn impressive, and many many . When a baby is born, mamas milk comes out as colostrum a very thick yellow substance perfectly designed to meet babies need exactly at the newborn stage of life. I was taught for years that my salvation was only a happy side effect of Gods bringing glory to Himself- and after years of trying to rationalize how horrible things that happen are scripted for us by God- and after years of listening to systematic theology that seeks to cram all the unexplainable nature and mystery of God into a neat, cut and dried smugness with a pat answer to everything- I am like a kid in a candy store. @ Daisy: I cant make it all fit so I go with what I honestly believe and hold loosely to the conclusions. Carson D. James Kennedy J.I. Not really thinking things though. Why didnt he write a short book on a more important subject, like Robert Burtons The Anatomy Of Melancholy, written after Calvins death? Ive become a more capable musician as a result. Thats not counting all the wives of elders, deacons, and Christian men in general. Sometimes I get it right, sometimes I get it wrong. Arminianism answers some of questions for me, not all of them. Its very difficult and exhausting having a conversation with people who claim you never, ever get their views correct. 1 Systematic Theology Berkhof, Louis (Author) English (Publication Language) Witherington doesn't like to be put in either camp, and Lenski is Lutheran. They want pure milk easy to digest, soothing, warms their tummy, meets their needs, gives comfort, nourishes them and helps them grow. Off topic but growing up and even today my enduring friendships are with folks who had at least one immigrant parent.. one each from Greece, Italy and Albania. If it does, then Im find with that. I understand that, and I certainly dont look down on you. But whatever I believe about the sovereignty of God, it is MORE important to me to believe that God does not author evil and he does not desire for those he loves to suffer. Even the Bible uses hyperbole to make pointsa lot! It must start somewhere and with those who are willing to give up their cherished arguments for the sake of something better. 2. Now I have a place to send the Calvin debates and can keep the other threads relatively Calvin debate-free. Ill never forget a while back in our city when two young Christian college kids were killed, execution style, in a terrible, senseless crime. @JohnPiper: Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped.Job 1:20. 2) Everything that happens is scripted by God and is good for us. It usually starts out with something like this. ISTM, that the fundamental issue in abuse is betrayal. I have certainly never heard anything about either topic in Lutheran circles, though I *have* heard much about Gods love, mercy, forgiveness and grace. @ Daisy: An infant does not want, nor desire steak. @ Nick Bulbeck: Ive done better with some on TWW than others, many times because of my own insensitivity. Entropy setting in over time? This is simply human and not related to social faux pas. Once again, I was struck by Olson's response. So, I disagree with your choice of word infantilised because in my example Im talking about giving someone hurting exactly what they need (emotionally/spiritually) at the precise time they need it just like breastmilk. Instead, you consider this shorthand for biblical Christianity. We all went to Bostons Youthtimeno mention of Calvinism, Armininism or in between like me. Ed was not so big on doctrine. We can also agree that God is the author of evil doctrine is evil. . 10 Books (and One Letter) Every New Calvinist Needs to Read With the Internet, you never know. But RC, as a neo-Cal intellectual, is, I think, trying to avoid what so many Calvinists do with regularity, and have no problem with it: concede that at the root of what they believe are ideas that simply cannot be reconciled. Yet why do I still love Jesus, the Bible and read so many Christian authors? I would say its better to address individual issues anyway rather than decided if you can accept the tag. The correct understanding of any belief system shouldnt be of importance when Jesus says to come to him as a child., I think Jesus meant childlike, not childish. Childlike faith and trust are good, but faith has content, and, as it says in Hebrews, we should not be satisfied all our lives with the milk of the word, but should graduate to solid food.. B. Warfield said, "The Calvinist, in a word, is the man who sees God. This is as it should be, imo. Theology - Roger Olson, Jack Cottrell (restorationist inerrantist), Thomas Oden, Ergun Caner, Paige Patterson, Michael Brown Also, anything written by Satan Notthemama1984 Puritan Board Post-Graduate Nov 12, 2010 #7 I personally have no respect for Geisler. The thread on JAs blog really threw me off kilter. That is the only argument they have. I believe that this misunderstanding puts the m FAS sis on the wrong sil LA ble, on the misunderstood sovereignty as misunderstood, instead of on the love that God, as our creator father (dada), has for us, enough love to experience the indignities of life in the first century in the middle East, to be persecuted, and to die a horribly painful and disgraceful death by torture in public, all for our benefit.